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Interview
Salman Ahmad
Q.What is the difference between the stage you and the off stage you?
Salman: The everyday me has masks. We all wear masks, in real life I have to
deal with a million people and its very difficult to be nakedly sincere. I mean
you try to be, but its very difficult. But on stage I am totally naked. The
intensity of emotion that I feel on stage I give that out freely, there is no
hiding anything, there is no holding back. As a musician I feel most honest,
most sincere when I am on stage.
Q. What effect does your music have on you?
Salman: My music frees me; it liberates me from mental, psychological and
philosophical prisons.
Q. Sufism is an important part of your music, how much of it is a part of your
personal life?
Salman: Sufism came much later for me. Even before that I just loved to play the
guitar. Just hear the sound of a note, the music that listen to, like Santana,
south Asian classical music, such as Nusrat Fatah Ali Khan. I have always been
fascinated with people who play and sing from the heart, like the Beatles, John
Lennon. I listen to Qawali, for people who don’t know it is a gospel style of
singing Islamic devotional songs. One of the best exponents of that was Ustad
Nusrat Fatah Ali Khan; he played with Peter Gabriel and Eddie Veddar. And he
asked me to join him on his tour back in 91’ when I was playing guitar with him
I realized the great depths of Sufi poetry, its basically divine love poetry.
That opened my mind to new horizons, expanded my mind. In since than I tried to
incorporate a lot of that philosophy into Junoon music. I am a believer, I
believe in the oneness of God and everything in my career and my life is a
result of God so it is an over powering concept. I don’t want to say that I am
some sort of a preacher or whatever. It’s my private relationship with God.
Q. Drugs and drinking go with being a rock star, how do you deal with that?
Salman: I don’t [deal with it] because people weave their own tales. You
shouldn’t stop people from speaking out, everybody goes away with their own
perception of my image and it doesn’t bother me. I realize that my soul is
secure so I don’t care what people think about me.
Q. So, you have never done it?
Salman: Are you kidding me? That’s like saying that I haven’t sinned. Of course
I have sinned, I mean who didn’t. I am not an angel and nobody in this band
thinks I am an angel. So, as one grows out of adolescents to adulthood you find
out that certain things that have a great hold on you are really just illusions.
For me life is a continuous learning process, you make mistakes and you learn
from those mistakes and move on.
Q. How you deal with being this Idol that people look up to and follow and keep
away from the material temptations?
Salman: It’s very simple; Islam and Sufism have taught me that when you
surrender yourself to the One than all the superficial stuff just fades away.
Q. You used terms such as Sufism and Islam explain the difference between the
two?
Salman: Sufism is not a sect; it’s just the root of Islam. People use this term
as if it’s some sort of club. In its most simplest definitions Sufism is
goodwill towards others people and goodwill towards God and it’s a celebration
of life. The Sufis such as Molana Rumi, Baba Bullay Shah and ibn La Rubu, these
are people who are seekers of beauty and truth. They celebrated their love for
God in love Music and dance. They didn’t really care whether they were being
politically correct or not. They openly challenged a lot of the mullahs because
they thought that mullahs were reducing God to human form by focusing just on
rituals. Sufism believe that the rituals are just a means to an end they are not
ends in themselves. I definitely subscribe to that point of view. Not only Islam
but also most religions in the world have been totally ritualized, they have
become dogmatic.
Q. Many religious people say that music is not allowed in Islam, what do you say
to that?
Salman: I say use your own intellect, are you saying that [music is not allowed]
because you feel that within your heart. Or are you saying that because someone
filled your head up with notions. Nine times out of ten people will say well,
“my father told me this” or “my grandfather told me this”. I thought about this,
when I started playing music there was so much opposition to being a musician,
it was such a huge taboo, it still is. I am not someone who will say well I know
that I am doing something wrong but it feels good so I am going to do it anyway.
I have to go to the depths of things; I have to understand what it is that I am
projecting. Music is something that is in the universe; there is rhythm in the
universe, there is melody in the universe, it’s in every sign of God, [such as,]
waves, birds and the wind. So, if something is so beautiful and makes you feel
good how can it be against God? And my book [The Quran] tells me use your
reason; there is no compulsion in religion so you really have to understand.
Bottom line is no where in the Quran does it say that music is against Islam, so
I use my own intellect and I use my knowledge as well.
Q. This is what you plan on doing for the rest of your life?
Salman: Its not an end it self, its means to an end, music gives me the
opportunity to share my perspective of the world, share my feelings with others.
The day that feeling goes away than I will start looking for another job, maybe
become a farmer or something.
Q. Do you ever plan on going back to Medicine?
Salman: I like to heal through music. Music for me is like breathing, so I like
keep doing it as long as I can breath.
Q. How does you wife feel about your work?
Salman: She is very supportive. She has been supportive right from the
beginning.
Q. How does your traveling so much effect your relationship with your wife?
Salman: My relationship is different in a sense that I met my wife when I was in
college. So, she has known me since before I was a rock star. The communication
that we have with each other is far deeper than the surface level of a rock star
and a wife. She is my soul mate, it’s a communication between two people which
is I think towards a good relationship.
Q. Were you brought up in America?
Salman: I went to school in Rockland County, NY. NY City is my spiritual
hometown in the sense that that’s where I got my first guitar went to my first
rock concert. I met Brian than. He has been my best friend since than. Our
producer John Alec also went to school with us.
Q. What do you think about the tension and the rift between Pakistan and America
right now?
Salman: You know what I don’t think there is a huge rift. If you stop fighting
over Gods marker chair, basically most religious want to do that, they say Jesus
was the one, no it was Moses no it was Muhammad. If you can disassociate from
all this and look at the message that the people of the book got [you will see]
it is the same message. There is no big difference. When I went to high school I
remember saying the pledge of allegiance it said “One Nation Under God, with
liberty and justice for all” that message of social justice is the inherent
message of Islam as well. So, I don’t see any civilization conflict there. Islam
has no culture Islam assimilates into cultures. Islam broke into pre-Islamic
Arabia, it didn’t bring a new culture it brought moral values and principles.
But it pretty much assimilated into the Arabic culture of that time. The Islam
of Bosnia and the Islam of Indonesia expresses itself differently as far as
culture goes.
Q. So, would you say “to each his or her own”?
Salman: Islam is a fiercely individual religion and the most important thing
about Islam is that it makes a direct relationship between you and God. There
shouldn’t be any Priest or middle person there. When you have a personal
relationship with God, it’s just you and him and if you have a good relationship
than He guides you. The biggest thing that comes from your faith in God is that
your fear is taken away. Faith does not come from a sense of fear it comes from
a sense of belief. When your belief is strong than all the fear goes out the
window and there is nothing to scare you.
Ali Azmat
Q. How did you get involved in music?
Ali: Well we knew each other for a while and I was studying in Australia and I
met Salman over there he was doing some stuff over there. He said to me when you
come down we will make an album and I came down in 1990 and recorded some songs
and decided to call it Junoon and that’s it, that’s how we got involved.
Q. Are the Sufi influences in your music a part of your personal life?
Ali: Well, to began with I am not a very religious person, but living alone as a
musician in Pakistan I spend a lot of time with my self and somehow came in
touch with my spiritual being, just seeing the wind and the trees and the people
around you seeing what beauty of God is, not in the religious sense but in the
religious sense where you feel the spirit of God around you. As a person I
became much more aware of when we started practicing music and singing Sufi
poetry. We discovered it [Sufi poetry] and we realized that we felt it already
but could not put our finger on it. The Sufi poets and musicians were on the
nerve center of whatever was going on because those were troubled times. Sufism
was a platform where all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians came together; it
had a huge effect in that sense.
Q. So, this is not just a gimmick for you, you don’t do it just to make money
off of it?
Ali: Sure that’s there too; I am not going to say that I don’t care about money.
Not that we make a lot of money. If it were all about money we would be doing
something totally different. It would be musical but completely different. It
would be more commercial and we would not be spending our own money to create a
difference. I could have done jingles, commercials, and film music; do variety
shows every night and make a lot of money. But we were never into that; I was
totally into music with some kind of meaning. In the band before this I was
making a hell whole lot of money that I am making in Junoon. But the fact of the
matter was that it wasn’t satisfying. When you sing it every time it has to
satisfy you. Whatever people think of me I guess I play up to that, they say,
“you are a rock star you are crazy”, it’s like damn if I do damn if I don’t. So,
I am better off not saying anything and let them live their imagery of me. It
doesn’t matter to me people are still intrigued about me. They want to know what
I am all about; they think I just don’t give a shit. I say, fine it doesn’t hurt
my health. I am still going to do what I am going to do. Actually it keeps me
away from the pressures. Now that I have said I am this kind of a person, so I
have to be that person in public, they think I am a rock star a party animal, it
doesn’t affect me. This is a decision I made a long time a go and I want to keep
it that way. Let me tell you I have no image. I am the most easy-going guy I do
what I want. Its my being, I have to be comfortable in my skin its 24/7 I have
to go through this. I cannot be there for everybody all the time. So, I [choose
to] be there for myself. People think whatever they want to think and I can feel
whatever I want to feel. At the end of the day when I am sitting all by myself
in my room nobody comes and comforts me so I have to be my own person for my own
reasons.
Q. Are you different off-stage and on stage?
Ali: yes very much so, actually I am totally different. In real life I am
chilled out, I am not a needy person, I am not as hyper and I appear on stage,
that’s the only time that I let that energy out and it is there, it gets stored
because of the kind of life I live.
Q. How do you deal of the general image of rock stars including you being “party
animals”?
Ali: Funny thing is I don’t deal with it. Like I said I live my life however I
see fit at that moment and time. Rock star here in the US sure they do all sorts
of things, but the country we come from there is not much scene of that
happening there. We come here and we might go to a bar but its not extreme where
you are hanging out with blonde babes and opening up bottles after bottles, its
not like that. We usually end up hanging out with Pakistani organizers who take
us to Lasani.
Q. You are an educated guy, what are your thoughts on education?
Ali: [Education] is very important, you can’t do jack without education. Its not
that it gives [everything] in life, but it gives a window of opportunity. Its
all about awareness, education doesn’t give you awareness; it just gives the
means to get that awareness. I think it’s very very necessary to be aware of
what the world is all about. Just the fact that if you are educated you can read
a newspaper or an article or book and form a view of a certain happening in the
world, it doesn’t have to be the word, its your opinion and its very important
and so education is just the means to get that.
Q. Do you see your self, doing this for the rest of your life?
Ali: This is it, this is my life, I am 32 years old I have been doing this since
I was 17 so that’s about 15 years too late that you are asking me this question.
Brian O’connell
Q. How did you get into Junoon?
Brian: Well Salman and I know each other from New York, we grew up together; I
think I knew him since I was 13 years old. We lived in the same small town in
New York called Tapan. We went to Junior High school together and then went on
to high school together. I was always involved in music, I always had little
garage bands and he learned how to play guitar and one thing lead to another and
before I knew it we were playing in a band together in high school. We were
quite good, we took the music very seriously, and we always won the battle of
the bands contests at school. And of course we became very close friends, so
when it came time to graduate from high school I went on to college in upstate
New York and he went back to Lahore to study medicine. We maintained our
friendship, in the summers he would come over and live with my family so we have
always been very close. So, when he recorded the first album with Ali, back in
1990 he brought it back in 91’ for me to listen to, I was very impressed with
what he was doing over there. Than in 1992 he asked me to come over and help
produce the second Album, Talaash, and I did and at that point I decided to stay
on over there and become a full time member of Junoon.
Q. So, how did that work for you? You left your country and your family and
moved all the way over there?
Brian: Yeah, well I started a new life over there and I started a new family
over there as well. I met my wife Aisha over there and we have two beautiful
daughters together and it [Pakistan] became my home.
Q. I know right now things are really tense, has it been trouble for you living
over there as an American?
Brian: I think for people who don’t know what I do over there, of course there
is your occasional anti-American sentiment. I have had the occasional death
threat and etc. But for the bulk of the people who recognize me as a part of
Junoon are very very well excepting and that’s puts me in a different class than
most other foreigners because I am recognized by Pakistan as an ambassador for
peace.
Q.There is a lot of Sufi influence in the music, how do you relate to that?
Brian: I love it. I am a devout Christian, Salman is a devout Muslim, so we come
from multi ethnic, multi religious back ground, and what appeals to me about the
Sufis was the fact that they didn’t even want to be called anything. There whole
point was the accessibility and the oneness of God and how the classifications
of religion can really separate us from our common goal, meaning he is every
one’s God. And as soon as we start to group ourselves [saying] I am under this
umbrella, I am a Sunni I am a shia, I am a protestant, I am catholic than that
kind of detracts from it and before you know it we are having wars against each
other [fighting over] whose God is better than the other side’s, and its all the
same God. Now the Sufis were talking about just the celebration of life and the
acknowledgement of God as being everyone’s God and the simplicity of direct
contact with him. As a Christian it speaks very loudly to me, and I have always
been for the unification of people rather than the division of people through
religion.
Q. Are you different on stage and off stage?
Brian: No I am not [two different people] I am the same person. I shy away from
lime light a lot, I am a quit person, [I am] kind of a behind the scenes guy I
don’t like to be in front of the camera too much because one thing we have all
notices about being in show business is that its very fake. If you start taking
yourself and your image too seriously than it takes away from your identity, so
I try to shy away from the media as much as I can, fame means nothing to me
accept headache and a responsibility to something that you really are not.
Q. My understanding is that sex, drugs and drinking goes with being a rock star,
how is it for you? Is all that a part of your life?
Brian: Surely not, I stay as far away from that as I can. I think that’s also,
(like I was mentioning before) an image that’s been created by the media that
isn’t entirely true or accurate. Of course it does exist but we take our music
very seriously. This is my full time job I don’t have any other job so there is
no room for drugs because that would take away from our creativity, and as far
as the sex goes I am a very spiritual and religious person I believe in monogamy
and all the things that are taught through the Bible and the Quran, and I don’t
subscribe to that at all. I think if we did than Junoon wouldn’t work we would
all be dead or have diseases, so at the end of the day you have your conscious
to sleep with, so it better be clean.
Q. Because Sufism is part of Islam that is why Muslims have a big issue with
having a Christian in a group such as Junoon, do you deal with this issue at
all?
Brian: Yeah I do, and let me answer that like this; I am going to debate you on
this that Sufism is not Islam. Sufis wanted not to be in a category since they
were in that part of the world and Islam was very prevalent in that part of the
world it kinda got linked to that and as a Christian, as I mentioned before the
beauty of Sufism is that there are no umbrellas or categories in Christian,
Muslim or what not although, its kind of been going hand in hand with being the
Islamic Sufi sayings. I am not a Muslim but I am a Christian and there is very
very little difference between the great religions and the more we realize that
the more we get to know each other and build bridges rather than walls between
Nationalities and different ways of practicing one’s faith so when people start
to call the Sufi sayings their own that’s building walls. Its like saying my God
is only good for me but you cant have Him. He is the same God; we have different
names for him.
Q. How do you deal with being a part of two cultures?
Brian: I love it. And as an American I would highly recommend it to all
Americans who traditionally don’t travel too much in the world I think less than
half of the American citizens own a passport. And I tell you that my eyes were
opened when I started traveling outside the border, so I love it.
Q. How does your family feel about what you do?
Brian: Well, like I said I don’t blare it out too much the fame that we do have
and the recognition we have because I don’t want to change the person that I
grew up as. I would still want my mother and father, my sisters and my friends
to relate to me as the person that they know rather than this rock legend icon.
They get very excited when they see us on television or the newspaper but I
really don’t shine too much light on that because that changes your relationship
with people. People start looking at you as an item or as an object rather than
a person, what makes me any better than the guy in the next room? Just because
more people recognize me? Not at all.
Q. Lets talk about education; I know you have some kind of degree.
Brian: I went to college to become a music teacher, and ironically enough I
found it very unrewarding because it was robbing me of my own personal
creativity in music. So I kinda took a side root and I got in the field of Human
Services where I was working with developmentally disabled adults, people who
were mentally challenged and physically challenged, and I ended up focusing on
the mentally retarded population in New York, and I ended up working for a very
very reputable organization called People Incorporated where we would provide
services to developmentally disabled, and take them from this huge jail like
institution and set them up in a more “normal” environment like you and I would
live in. So, I found that very rewarding, the pay wasn’t very good but it was
good for the soul and I was helping people. And I hope that through my music and
whatever God gives me to do for the rest of my life that I can always be giving
back to people less fortunate than me because that makes me feel more complete.
Q. So, you feel education is Important in one’s life?
Brian: Education is very important. I really think that whatever education is
available to one it must be perused cause I think that’s what God wants us to do
is to seek knowledge.
Q. On the bigger level how could the cultures of Pakistan and America be brought
closer together?
Brian: Well, I think that through creating awareness, that’s the first step.
Whenever there are unknowns about other cultures, other parts of the worlds
there is a human tendency to develop fear in the unknown, and that’s not
healthy. I think through education and cultural exchange and our part is doing
cultural exchange through music, because music is quite a universal language.
The more we know about different parts of the worlds the more we understand, the
more we can except and once that happens then someone like you or me is going to
feel less awkward when jumping back between the two cultures. The Cultures wont
melt into each other there will always be the identity of the east and the
identity of the west but with better understanding there will be much more
tolerance, much more acceptance and you’ll see that there is much more
integration and cooperation between the two [cultures] which is a very good
thing.
Q. Do you see yourself doing this for the rest of your life?
Brian: I hope so, in some capacity I would love to because I am a musicians, I
love traveling I love Pakistan, and if its not performing I am sure Ill get to
the where Ill get so old where we cant jump up on stage all the time. And being
in different places is great but traveling to different places is difficult, it
really is, flying gets old, so that may settle down a little bit but I look
forward to the media and to the internet and communication between cultures
really taking over where you really wont have to leave your country to be
broadcasting elsewhere. So, I will definitely stay involved in the music aspect
of it if I can.
Interview by : MAHVISH AKHTAR
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